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Branches & Roots

While working on President Hinckley's August 2005 challenge to read the Book of Mormon, I came across a verse in Jacob 5 that cause me to ponder. In verse 47, the master of the vineyard is pining over the fact that his good olive tree has become overrun with wild fruit despite all his effort to encourage the growth of good fruit through pruning, fertilising, and aerating. His servant's response is in verse 48:

"And it came to pass that the servant said unto his master: Is it not the loftiness of thy vineyard——have not the branches thereof overcome the roots which are good? And because the branches have overcome the roots thereof, behold they grew faster than the strength of the roots, taking strength unto themselves. Behold, I say, is not this the cause that the trees of thy vineyard have become corrupted?"

It seems the grafted-in wild branches spread out to bear fruit more quickly than the roots could handle.

As I was pondering this, I wondered if perhaps some new members are similar to this tree. Not in the idea that they are bearing wild fruit or that their efforts are corrupted, but in the idea that perhaps they are spreading out quickly in an effort to produce a lot of fruit. Too quickly for their root system.

Do we expect too much of our new converts? Do they expect too much of themselves?

Court Rejects Intelligent Design

The verdict is in, and intelligent design is out. CNN reports:

"'Intelligent design' cannot be mentioned in biology classes in a Pennsylvania public school district, a federal judge said Tuesday, ruling in one of the biggest courtroom clashes on evolution since the 1925 Scopes trial."

I know the LDS church doesn't have an official policy one way or the other, but I'm curious what readers of Our Thoughts think about the decision.

Converts vs. Constancy

Which would you do if you were president of the Church?

A: Tweak doctrines and policies as society values change in order to encourage church growth through converts. This would allow more people to be baptised and receive saving ordinances, but may give some persons the impression that God changes.

B: Keep doctrines and policies the same despite society values in order to maintain the idea that God never changes, but risk a reduction in church growth through converts. This would mean that less people receive saving ordinances.

Christmas Eve VS No church on Sunday

If we are to spend this time thinking of the birth of Christ and making your "holiday" more Christ-centered and spiritual why is it we only get to go to church on Christmas day every 6 years or so when it happens to hit on a Sunday? I have to yet to understand that concept. I am so thrilled this year that we actually get to go to church on Christmas Day. What a better way to keep Christ in your Christmas then to get away from all the gifts and food etc then by going to partake of the Sacrament and think of Christ. I miss Midnight Mass from the old days.

Corrupt

When Joseph Smith was visited by Jesus and God, he was told that the Christian denominations at the time were all wrong, all their creeds were an abomination, their professors were all corrupt, their words spoke of Christ but their actions did not, and they taught commandments of men as doctrine (See JSH 1:19).

In the 185 years since then, have Christian churches improved? Are they still corrupt and abominable? Are their professions of Christianity still hollow?

Rum Ball

I ate a rum ball today. Well, actually, it was more like half of a rum ball. I have to say that rum balls have to be the grossest things I have ever tested. I can't believe people like these things. And to cover it in chocolate; how deceptive.

Best Group Blog

If you like Our Thoughts and like to vote, feel free to cast your ballot for Our Thoughts as the best other group blog.

God's Marriage

Heber C. Kimball, when he was in the First Presidency, stated:

"The man Joseph, the husband of Mary, did not, that we know of, have more than one wife, but Mary the wife of Joseph had another husband" (Deseret News, October 10, 1866)

Orson Pratt stated:

"Therefore, the Father and Mother of Jesus, according to the flesh, must have been associated together in the capacity of Husband and Wife; hence the Virgin Mary must have been, for the time being, the lawful wife of God the Father" (The Seer, 158)

God and Mary were married?

Satan's Good

To open the April general conference of this year, Gordon B. Hinckley said the following:

My beloved brothers and sisters, on behalf of the worldwide membership of this Church, I extend to our Catholic neighbors and friends our heartfelt sympathy at this time of great sorrow. Pope John Paul II has worked tirelessly to advance the cause of Christianity, to lift the burdens of the poor, and to speak fearlessly in behalf of moral values and human dignity. He will be greatly missed, particularly by the very many who have looked to him for leadership.

Given that there seems to be much good in the Catholic Church, can Satan lead someone to join that church? More specifically, can someone decide to leave the Mormon Church to join the Catholic Church, claiming the Spirit led them to that decision? Or would that decision be a result of influence from Satan?

Given that "all things which are good cometh of God" (Moro 7:12), can Satan influence someone to do something that is good, but may be perceived as less good?

Rick Mercer for PM

Ok, I had to chime in on this after reading the Beer petition. Not being a beer drinker, but being a Canadian I love the comments. :) And I have to agree with at least one signer. RICK MERCER FOR PRIME MINISTER! I wish I was just joking, but I'm not. I wish we had him as a choice, he'd get my vote. But then we'd lose him as the country's funniest person.

Anti-Beer

"We the [over 2,400] undersigned demand an immediate cessation of anti-beer comments from individuals running for Parliament." (via Rick Mercer)

Afterlife

In the LDS view of the afterlife, will the religion of persons who are not LDS have any bearing on the judgement they receive? For example, will judgement be more favourable for a practicing Catholic than it would be for a devil worshipper?

Family Values

I've heard the term "family values" thrown around in the media, on blogs and even in church. Can someone explain to me what family values are and why they are called "family values" and not just "values"?

Stephen Harper and the real world

What is with the man?? So, if your children are in organised sports then he is offering a tax break. But not if they are in any OTHER extra curricular program, whatever it may be. How about the arts? Music lessons aren't cheap. And what if my children want to be in yoga classes? I guess those don't count!

I have nothing at all against organised sports for children (or adults). I think it's a great idea. However, it isn't the only area that parents have their children involved in. And it also discriminates against other active programs. Organised sport activities are NOT the only valid, or expensive programs out there.

And don't even get me started on his childcare money incentive. I don't know who he is trying to fool, but it certainly is not me. I hope it isn't many others either. I am very afraid if this man becomes Prime Minister. Very afraid. He seems to live in a dream world and certainly not in Canada.

This isn't JUST Kim's blog

Ok, the rest of us may not post as often, but it isn't just HIS. As he keeps trying to tell everyone (yes, literally everyone, there are places where Our Thoughts is listed as "Kim's Thoughts".)

How to Get Married in 10 Easy Steps

Traditional culture among members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seems to encourage people to get married quickly. Of course, often people seem not to do such for a number of reasons (finish school, everyone's ugly, don't have a car, etc).

Unfortunately, there are times when such individuals, though not all, seem to stay single for extended periods of time. The following ten steps are designed to help those who feel trapped in such a situation to get out.

It has never been tested on bachelorettes.

1. Write down EVERY SINGLE thing you are looking for in an eternal companion. Everything from how active in the Church she should be to the colour of hair to her clothing styles to whether she likes olives or not. EVERY THING.

Do NOT proceed to the next steps without fully completing this step.

2. Set a goal date by which you will be engaged. Be realistic. Don't make it too short and don't make it too far away. Post this goal somewhere, or make it easy to remember (six months from Christmas as an example).

3. Set a goal date by which you will be married. Same conditions as above.

4. Write up a list of EVERYONE who is interested in you. Start with those who live closest. List them in order by the degree they like you (the most at the top). Do not pay attention to whether you like them or not.

5. Phone up the first person on your list and ask her on a date as soon as possible. Act like a gentleman on your date but be yourself. At the end of your date, compare her characteristics, personality and qualities to the list you made in step one.

6. Repeat steps 5 & 6 with everyone in your list, starting next with the second one, then the third one, etc.

7. When you have dated everyone on the list, compare each one's characteristics, personalities and qualities with those of the others. Select the one which most closely meet the elements of the list you created in step 1.

8. Date her a few more time to make sure your first impressions were correct. If they weren't, go on to the second person.

9. Ask her to go steady. Continue dating her to strengthen whatever relationship you have developed by this point.

10. On or before the goal date you set in step 2, ask her to marry you before or on the goal date you set in step 3.

There you go. Ten easy steps to get married. Follow EACH of them as outlined, and you will be married for sure.

Death and God

How do you "explain" to an elderly man (lifetime member although inactive for many years) that God is not to blame for his wife being literally on death's door? What do you say when he asks why is God doing this to us? Is He punishing us for not going to church all these years? Is this His way of repaying us back for coming back to church these last few months?

Hubby has been at the hospital almost nonstop for last 24 hours with a member as they sit with the wife. He is having a hard time talking to this man who is watching his wife of over 50 years slip through his fingers and doesn't know what to say. I said don't say anything at all... just let him grieve and let him talk. I told him to ask this man if he wanted a blessing of comfort.

I've run out of ideas..

Un-Christmas Christmas

I don't know how to just post a link on here for some reason it doesn't allow me to do it so I have to cut and paste an article my Bishop just sent me and other leaders in our ward.

It's a sad sad day when we no longer can celebrate Christmas in public without having to worry whether or not it is politically correct or if we will be taken to court.

[UPDATE: Here's the link to the "'Twelve Rules of Christmas' Guidelines for Public Holiday Celebrations" article at Meridian Magazine, Mum. --Kim]

Mormon Culture

There are some who consider themselves Catholic despite having never stepped in a Catholic church and may not even have been baptised Catholic. But his ancestors were Catholic, so he is.

Some call themselves Jewish despite the fact that she's never had a Bat Mitzvah, never stepped in a synagogue and even eat pork. But her ancestors were Jewish, so she is.

Has Mormonism arrived at the point yet where being Mormon is more than just being baptised? Can someone rightly claim to being Mormon even if s/he has never been baptised, but her/his parents and grandparents were?

30 Year Church Growth

I decided to go through the reports of the April general conferences since 1974 and track the number of converts reported each year. I noticed some interesting things.



First of all, there was a huge amount of growth from 1974-1990. The bulk of this time was under President Kimball's administration and five years of it was under President Benson's.

Second, there appear to be small pockets of growth decline every few years.

Third, from 1978 to 1982, the reported number of converts was rounded to the thousands place (152,000, 193,000, etc).

Finally, and perhaps most notably, the number of converts has been on a general decline since 1990, when it had reached a record 330,877 converts. In fact, last year, the number of converts reported was at the lowest it has been in 16 years.

Packer: Mouthpiece of God or Prejudicial Old Man?

Boyd K. Packer once gave This Speech excepts from it are:

"We've always counseled in the Church for our Mexican members to marry Mexicans, our Japanese members to marry Japanese, our Caucasians to marry Caucasians, our Polynesian members to marry Polynesians."

"For every exception we can show you tens and hundreds, and I suppose thousands, who were not happy. Plan, young people, to marry into your own race."

Do these kinds of comments embarrass you as a member?
Do you think these kinds of attitudes have a place in our society?

Following in His footsteps

If we were sent here to learn and to follow Heavenly Father's plan, and He sent us His Son to guide us I would think we had to follow His footsteps as well and if Christ was given to us as an example and part of our "counsel" has been to go forth and multiply does that not mean that Christ also had a wife and child/ren? Or can you be perfected without going through that process? Is that two different trains of thoughts?

Dualism

Mormons believe in degrees of glory (see D&C 76 and 131). So, why do we describe eveything as good or bad, or view obedience as black and white?

Kaimi

Apparently, some people confuse me with Kaimi of Times and Seasons. Is this common? Are there others in the bloggernacle who are confused for each other (Bannergate notwithstanding)?

Constitutions

Jesus stated that he established the US constitution.

And for this purpose have I established the Constitution of this land, by the hands of wise men whom I raised up unto this very purpose, and redeemed the land by the shedding of blood. (D&C 101:80)

Is it safe for one to conclude then that the lack of statements regarding the constitutions of other nations mean those constitutions are not inspired?

Becoming Missionaries

David A. Bednar, in priesthood session of the October 2005 General Conference:

The issue is not going on a mission; rather, the issue is becoming a missionary and serving throughout our entire life with all of our heart, might, mind, and strength. It is possible for a young man to go on a mission and not become a missionary, and this is not what the Lord requires or what the Church needs.

The problem is that virtually all missions of the world continue to use tracting as a way to keep missionaries busy, and tracting is arguably the one thing least likely to help someone become a missionary.

Middle Income

"I tend to think of you know people up to 80 to 90 thousand dollars as being middle income in this day and age . . . I don't think most people would consider $70,000 to be high income." (Stephen Harper, December 5, 2005)

Inspiration

As requested:

Do our leaders always pray and receive inspiration before issuing instructions?

Devotional

So did anyone happen to be able to watch the devotional last night? I went online to watch it but could not and hubby went back to the church to watch it and the building was packed but no devotional. I was just wondering how it turned out or if everyone else also had problems with the viewing.

Our Thoughts Frappr

Hop over to Our Thoughts Frappr and show everyone where in the world you live.

Baby Blessing

There was a baby blessing in our ward today. Dad carried a little white confection to the front and about 20 guys joined him in the circle.

When the blessing was completed he forgot the all important money shot. This is when the Dad hoists the new born as high as their delicate infant bodies will allow so we can all collectively say, "Awwww!"

I feel jipped! Has there been some memo from Salt Lake telling us we can no longer do this time honored tradition? Mary, did you have somthing to do with this?

Snarker Revealed

It turns out Mary isn't as non-confrontational as I thought. I can't believe she has been keeping this from me.

Traveling Shoes

A friend of mine has joined the Bloggernacle. He's not Canadian and he is maintaining anonymity currently. His new blog is Traveling Shoes.

Does God want the USA in Iraq?

Did the Almighty arrange for George W. Bush to gain office, and did He set into motion the events that led to the 'liberation' of Iraq?

I'd be interested to know how many people honestly believe this and how many think it's ludicrous.

Asleep

So, this guy claims he was asleep when he had sex with the woman who accused him of raping her.

The woman had fallen asleep on a couch. She woke up to find him having sex with her. She pushed him off, then contacted the police.

Luedecke said he fell asleep on the same couch and woke up when he was thrown to the floor.

The story is weird, but I noticed something I wanted to post on.

When the man's side of the story is stated, the article states, "Luedecke said". When the woman's view is presented, however, there is no indication that it is her point of view, rather it seems to be presented as fact.

Artificial

I think many members of the Church would agree that sharing the gospel is difficult; or rather sharing it in the manner the full-time missionaries want them to. Why is it difficult?

I think a large reason is that it is so artificial. We pick someone we know (of) and set a date by which time we will have shared the gospel with or invited them to church or whatever. The problem is that method is so transparent. The average person can see through false motives, especially in places in Utah and southern Alberta where they are familiar with the motives of Mormons.

Full-time missionaries seem to be convinced that simply opening our mouths (even to the grocery store clerk or the gas station attendant) is the best way to bring in the converts. They seem to be convinced that when members share the gospel how they share it does not seem to be as important as the fact that it is the members sharing it. They have this idea that as long as it is the members doing it, it will have this magical effect on people.

Unfortunately, it does not work that way. People need to know that you are befriending them because you sincerely like them and not because you have set a date with the missionaries. A friendship needs to continue and flourish despite whether or not the friends ever accept the gospel, and if they do, the friendship needs to go beyond the date of baptism.

It is easy for missionaries to talk about the gospel with everyone they meet. Everyone they meet expects it of them. Missionaries are artificial. They dress artificially, they live artificial lives, they try to build artificial relationships, everything about them is artificial.

Which is why when so many get home and become natural again, they have difficulty sharing the gospel as they did on their missions. The artificial uniform is gone, the artificial life is gone yet they are still using artificial methods to share the gospel.

The gospel is all about love. Showing love for others. Developing a Christ-like love. Nourishing an unconditional love. When people know we love them, they want to be close to us; they want to be with us. That is how the gospel is shared. More neighbours will be converted because of a Mormon who shovelled their walks. More coworkers will be converted because of Mormons who offer compliments each day. More friends will be converted because of Mormons who support them, strengthen them and encourage them.

It is less about telling someone about Jesus and more about showing someone what Jesus did.

Oh, Man!

Exodus 20:7

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain

Moses 7:35

Behold, I am God; Man of Holiness is my name; Man of Counsel is my name; and Endless and Eternal is my name, also.

The Enigma that is D&C 59

So I'm reading from D&C 59:
13 And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full.
14 Verily, this is fasting and prayer, or in other words, rejoicing and prayer.
15 And inasmuch as ye do these things with thanksgiving, with cheerful hearts and countenances, not with much laughter, for this is sin, but with a glad heart and a cheerful countenance—

...and I get 'fasting may be perfect'='joy may be full'; 'fasting'='rejoicing'; laughter on the sabbath is a sin.

So the question is, how many members feel that their joy is full and that they are rejoicing on Fast Sunday *and* how many members have sinned when laughing at jokes from the pulpit?

The next time nobody laughs at the jokes the bishop makes, just remember - it's not that they're bad jokes, it's just that everyone is avoiding sin.

Atheists

I was listenting to an old This Mormon Life podcast on my ride to work this morning. Dallas was reading emails and one of them was from a woman who recently joined the Church after being atheist all her life.

I have always wondered what it is that convinces some atheists that a god exists. Moreover, I wonder what makes them choose Christianity.

Hypothermia Hospital

Seen in the Globe and Mail:

A middle-aged man with terminal cancer also died after he was taken to a NATO hospital suffering from hypothermia.

How does a hospital suffer from hypothermia?

Nature

Yesterday in our elders quorum meeting, the instructor brought up a point regarding how some individuals consider themselves having been born with certain qualities that they see no use in controlling. Specifically, he mentioned homosexuality. He disagreed with this idea on the basis that we are not born with such tendencies, but rather have a choice.

I disagree. At least to the point that I see no problem with the idea that people can be born with qualities or tendencies that are in direct opposition (or at least seem to be) principles of Christianity. After all, "the natural man is an enemy to God". As such, it doesn't not seem preposterous that we are naturally sinful. I have known a lot of people, for example, who seem predisposed to being selfish or dishonest.

If anything, it makes more sense. What would be the point of trying to be like Jesus if we were naturally inclined to be spiritual? What sacrifice would there be? How could we become stronger?

Likeness and other worlds

Well I have just been reading scriptures on a different matter but as sometimes happens when I am reading something boring to me, my mind wanders (especially when some un-named son which will remain namelss scares the crap out of his mother and then can no longer concentrate!!!) and I started thinking...... if we as in man, were created in the likeness of our Father in Heaven give or take, and we all pretty much know there are other worlds with life out there... does that mean all life look like we do as humans? Are we the only planet that has life created in the image of God?

Lust

In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said:

Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: but I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Matt 5:27-28)

How does one look at a woman to lust after her? Is simply "checking her out" committing adultery? Is it more than that?

Father Responsibilities

In an editorial in the December issue of the Ensign, it states:

"Disease, disability, death, divorce, and other disruptive factors can create challenges. In such situations, "individual adaptation" of roles may be necessary. A father may need to take on additional household and nurturing responsibilities. . ."

What additional household or nurturing responsibilities should fathers in such situation take upon themselves that couldn't have been done before?

100 Comments

For those who haven't been watching, we currently have two posts running neck and neck toward 100 comments (Anti-Gay and Pressured Revelation). This week has given us more comments than ever before, and we're about to break a huge milestone at Our Thoughts. That is if the topics don't die out as they seem to be doing.

I know it's not poker, but bets are now open on which of the two will reach 100 comments first.

Oh, and a special thank goes out to ltbugraf for making all this possible. We couldn't have done it without him...er...her...um...yeah, ok.

Mr. Krueger's Christmas

We received our December Ensign, but without the promised Mr. Krueger's Christmas DVD. Have you received the DVD with your December Ensign?

Pay hikes for politicians

In the news last night the newscaster was saying that they (missed who this "they" were) were trying to bring in new legistlature that politicians, on all levels, should not be allowed to give themselves raises. That all and any raises should be put to the public for a vote. Now for me, I don't think the normal Joe Public would ever allow them to get any raises. But on the other hand I think it would cut down on unnecessary spending and expense reports. Such as flying a jet from Ottawa to NYC to get specialty bagels and a specific beer. (True story)

Clapping

One of my cousins came with me to church a few years ago (when I was still a teenager). That Sunday happened to be the day the young men and women sang "The Army of Helaman". I don't know if my cousin thought we were did a good job or whether he was just being polite, but when we were done, he started clapping.

It amounted to maybe three or four claps because it didn't take him long to he realise he was the only one. He isn't a Mormon and not clapping in church was something we took for granted and forgot to tell him.

Maybe we should have a sign outside: Visitors welcome. No clapping.

Key to Happy Marriage

I love you.

Opinion

Can prophets have their own opinions? Can they teach their own opinions? Can they teach their own opinions from the pulpit? Can they teach their own opinions as doctrine? Can they interpret scripture to support their opinions?

Do prophets no longer have their own opinions? Are they always in communication with God? Is all that leaves their tongues the word of God?

What's the difference between opinion and doctrine?

Pressured Revelation

There seems to be some occurrences of revelation within the Mormon church that have been a result of (or at the very least coincided with) societal pressures.

The Word of Wisdom was received as a result of Emma Smith complaining to Joseph Smith about cleaning up tobacco spit from the floor of the School of the Prophets. The Manifesto was issued around the same time that Utah wanted to become a state in a country where plural marriage was illegal. The revelation to extend the priesthood to all males was issued in an era of a civil rights movement.

Can society be a catalyst for revelation? Does God need to wait for a prophet to approach Him with a problem before issuing a revelation? Can any society issue put enough pressure on the Church that a revelation changing policy/doctrine be issued?

Anti-Gay

Thanks to Ian over at War is peace; freedom is slavery; ignorance is strength, I came across this article from five years ago when President Hinckley was interviewed regarding politics.

This statement stood out:

We are not anti-gay. We are pro-family. I want to emphasize that.

I know many members who do not see a difference between the two. Is there a difference? Can someone by pro-family without being anti-gay?

One Life

Genesis 2:24 states that "a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh." I have often thought about this, particularly the last part of the verse.

The term "one flesh" seems to have received the meaning that what was once the husband's life and the wife's life has come together and been replaced with a joint, common life.

So I am left to wonder then if statements like "we are so glad this baby has come into our life [as opposed to lives]" or "we are happy with our life [as opposed to lives] together" are accurate.

Does a man and a woman both give up their individual lives in an effort to build a common life? If so, how does a common life look and operate?

Quiver

Jospeh Smith had this to say of himself:

"I am like a huge, rough stone rolling down from a high mountain; and the only polishing I get is when some corner gets rubbed off by coming in contact with something else . . . all hell knocking off a corner here and a corner there. Thus I will become a smooth and polished shaft in the quiver of the Almighty" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 304).

Seems to be quite similar to Isaiah 49:2:

"And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me"

Members and politics?

Should a member use membership lists, email lists and ward/stake directories to ask members to vote them in the upcoming election whether it be civil, city council, provincial or federal? Is that taking the church membership and abusing it? What if they ask members to forward their email that they received to everyone in their address book and your inbox gets inundated with mail from tons of people with screens and screens of other people's email address knowing that now your name is being circulated on how many other people's computers?

Did Joseph Smith Write the Book of Mormon?

Some assert that when Joseph Smith translated the golden plates into what is now the Book of Mormon, the seer stones he used literally showed him each word, just like Babelfish. Others hold to the idea that Joseph Smith had ideas come to his mind and these he expressed into his own words (similar to what many experience when giving priesthood blessings).

In the case of the latter, the possibility seems to exist that Joseph Smith could have inserted his own interpretations into the text. If this possibility is factual, does that mean the claims Joseph wrote the Book of Mormon are accurate?

Word of Wisdom & Eden

Has anyone else found some parallel between the commandments given to Adam in the Garden of Eden and the Word of Wisdom given to us today?

For example, in Genesis 2:16, Adam is told that he can eat freely of every tree. In D&C 89:10-17 outlines substances of which we are free to eat.

In the following verse (Gen 2:17), God told Adam that he shall not eat from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. Likewise, in D&C 89:5-9, we are told of substances we are not to consume.

In addition, Adam is told if he disobeys, he will die. We are told in D&C 89:18-20 that if we hearken the counsel in the Word of Wisdom (as well as keep other commandments), we will receive health benefits (presumably longer life, or prolonging death).

I also find it interesting that if we obey the Word of Wisdom we are promised that the destroying angel shall pass us by. Conversely, when Adam and Eve were banned form Eden, a angelic being was put in charge of guarding the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Homeschooled

So an eighteen-year old in Pennsylvania killed the fifty-year-old parents of his fourteen-year-old girlfriend and then "kidnapped" her. The police apprehended him after he ran his mother's vehicle into a tree in Indiana.

The event is horrible, but something else stuck out at me:

Mike Borden [the girl's father] worked for a printing company, and the children were home-schooled, said neighbor Tod Sherman. Sherman said the family knew Ludwig [the accused] through a home-schooling network.

Can someone explain the point of this? After all, when other teenagers kill adults by shooting them in the head, does the media make a point of the children of the adults being public schooled and that the family knew the accused through the public school?

I can just imagine the implications people are going to make with this one.

Perfection

We were asked in elders quorum yesterday how we can become perfect; what can we do to become perfect.

As I thought about this, I considered the life of Jesus and how he was perfect spiritually. I concluded to myself that if there was anything we could do to become perfect, it would be found in His life.

Then I was reminded of his declaration of the two great commandments:

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. The second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." (Matt. 22:37-39)

So I wonder, is this the pattern we need to follow to become perfect? If we can develop a complete love of God and a pure love of our fellow beings, can we become perfect? Will such a development remove from our minds the desire to do wrong? Will it destroy our natural self and rebirth us with a spiritual self?

Commandments

Our church seems to be focused on commandments and rules. It would seem—though perhaps scientifically unconfirmed—that of all the Christian sects, ours has the most commandments, rules, guidelines, suggestions and the like. This is odd, in a way, considering how we profess to be a church closer to Christ in its teachings than any other.

I was pondering on this thought yesterday and was left wondering if perhaps we miss the point. Sometimes I wonder if we focus so much on the edges of the strait and narrow path that we forget the path is actually taking us somewhere; that we focus on the commandment as commandments rather than the purpose for which they have been given.

The natural human is an enemy to God. It is within our nature to have qualities that are antithetical to God's qualities. He is merciful; we are vengeful. He is kind; we are self-serving. And so forth.

It is my opinion then that the commandments have been issued to us in a way for us to overcome the natural being and become a spiritual being. In other words, the commandments are to guide us in becoming the type of person Christ (and ultimately God) is.

Keeping the Sabbath holy helps us develop a reverence for God. Not stealing helps us develop a respect for the property of others. Not lying helps us to be develop integrity. and so on.

Despite this, however, we seem to focus so much on keeping the commandments that many of us are simply going through the motions of keeping the commandments that we never become the type of person to enter the Life of God. Or worse yet, we rebel at the rigidity and pharisaic nature of the commandments and stop keeping them altogether.

Freedom

Today is Remembrance Day in Canada. We remember the soldiers who fought and died in war.

It is not uncommon around this time of the year to hear persons admonishing us to remember those who have died and to appreciate the freedoms we have for which their deaths have made possible.

I have always wondered whether the world wars (or say the Korean War) helped preserve the freedoms we have in Canada. None of the wars were on Canadian soil and Canada entered the war as a member of the British Commonwealth. Had any of the dictators in the world wars been successful in their goals, would they have been intent on occupying North America? Were Canada's freedoms ever in true jeopardy?

Missionary Work

Have you had a co-worker approach you about his/her church?

Have you had a client/customer approach you about his/her church?

Have you had a neighbour approach you about his/her church?

Have you had a friend approach you about his/her church?

Have you had someone at the bus stop approach you about his/her church?

Home Teaching

Have we lost the purpose of home teaching? Is home teaching supposed to be more than soclialising and reading a five-minute message? Is there any point in going at all if that is all it is? Is home teaching making a difference in church participation among the members? Are the home teachers seeing any benefit from going?

New Prophet

In 25 years, we'll be celebrating the 200th anniversary of the Church. I am doubtful that 95-year-old Gordon Hinckley will be alive then. Which means that a new president of the church will lead us into our third century.

There have already been more presidents serving in the last century (Heber J. Grant to Gordon B. Hinckley) than in the first century (Joseph Smith to Heber J. Grant). so, who knows how many more there will be.

Presumably, the next president of the Church could ed up serving as long a Hebe J. Grant (27 years) or Brigham Young (30 years), and we'll only have one more president of the church before 2030. However Heber J. Grant was around 62 when he was called and Brigham Young was 46. Thomas S. Monson is the current Heir Apparent, but he is 78. While it is possible he will live to be 103, it is doubtful.

I wonder who it will be.

Cultural Sealings

If I recall correctly, I believe there are countries outside of the United states and Canada that do not recognise temple marriages has valid. As such, members have to be married civilly before they can be sealed. I also believe that such individuals can be sealed immediately after.

In the United States and Canada (at least), temple marriages are recognised as valid. As such, members are not required to be married civilly. Members are free to be married civilly previously to the sealing if the wish. The catch, however, is that such members have to wait a year from their civil wedding before entering the temple.

Why?

I am doubtful it's of any eternal consequence since members in other countries can do it.

Is it simply a cultural issue?

I do not see what benefit there is in forcing a husband and wife to wait an entire year to enter the temple if they are temple worthy and devoted to each other.

Come to think of it, I'm sure if we had been married civilly first, some of our siblings would have been more pleased. Not to mention those who have parents who are not active members of the Church.

Sacrament Prayers

One of my counsellors and his wife were asked by the executive secretary to say the opening and closing prayers in Sacrament on Sunday. Afterward, they were discussing since his wife may be out with their infant at the end of the meeting, she may not be able to say the closing prayer. I suggested to him that they switch it around: she to give the opening prayer, and he to give the closing. I know we've had to do that in the past.

He discussed this with the executive secretary and the executive secretary told him that wouldn't work because only a priesthood holder can open a sacrament meeting. It turned out instead that my counsellor gave the opening prayer and the executive secretary gave the closing prayer.

I had never heard of this until then. Is it like this in other wards? I know of at least two wards where this wasn't the case.

Moral Dilemma at School

Consider the following situation:

Your obedient LDS son or daughter will shortly be writing the final exam in 'History of the Americas', a first year university coarse.

The review materials indicate that a potential question on the exam may be on the topic of 'Please describe the impact of the horse and gun on the societies of the aboriginal American inhabitants.'

Said son or daughter feels like this is a good time to correct the many errors in the history book she bought for the coarse and plans on 'taking a stand' and filling in the instructor on how horses and chariots pre-dated the Spanish arrival in the Americas, and thus the 'arrival' of horses with the Spanish had no effect whatsoever.

How do you council your child to behave during the exam?
Should they just write what the marker wants to see?
Should they take a stand against the obvious lies in the history book?
Is there any middle ground?

Relief Society Dues

I recently discovered that until 1970, the Relief Society used to collect dues from its members. I have not been able to fin anything in-depth about it, but based on what I read, I presume that operational expenses were funded by these dues.

President Harold B. Lee announced in July 1970 that the collection of dues were to be stopped, and whatever money was in possession of the Relief Society to that point was to be handed over to the Church. I'm not sure I see the logic in this decision.

First of all, this decision meant that the Relief Society would need to cover operational expenses through the tithing fund, which would place more stress on such a system.

Secondly, this decision meant that the Church was eliminating an additional revenue stream.

Why would any organisation want to cut off a viable revenue source just to place extra burden on other revenue sources?

Convert

Last night, I was spending some time trying to track down old friends and people I taught on my mission. I was saddened to come across the obituary of John O'berto who died in 2002.

We taught John in the spring and early summer of 1993. He was a great guy who embraced the gospel. He was on his second marriage and his wife was a member. They owned a cafe and let missionaries eat there once a month for free.

I left only a couple of days before his baptism, so I lost track of how things turned out.

Well, the obituary states that he remained active in the Church. He went to the temple the following year, and was sealed to his wife and her children. He was an instructor in the high priests group and when he died, he was serving in the high priests group leadership.

I've only ever been able to find out what happened with one of the people we taught, so this was very encouraging. I just wish I could find the others.

Comments

Blogger has a new comment moderation feature that I have implemented. The plus side is that spam will no longer get through. The down side is that a user's comment will not appear immediately unless s/he is a member of Our Thoughts. Usually, I am pretty quick with moderation, but when I am out or asleep, your message will not appear for a few hours.

It's not a perfect system, but I think it is less intrusive than word verification.

Melding My Thoughts into Our Thoughts

Thanks for letting me be a part of Our Thoughts. Please allow me to indulge you with a few words about myself.

I'm a 26 year old guy from Medicine Hat, Alberta. I bought a house on the South Side of Lethbridge in September 2002 and have been studying New Media at the University of Lethbridge since that time.

The first Milner, related to me, to join the church was John Brewitt Milner sometime in the mid 1800's). I'm a descendant of Mormon stock from way back on both sides of my family so if you, gentle reader, have "Mormon Pioneer" relatives then there's probably a chance we're related.

I went on a mission to Salt Lake City in 1998 and had plenty of good and bad experiences there. Now I consider myself more of a believer in science than faith but I still like to discuss religion in a civil and logical manner. Please forgive me if I ever end up making a sharp comment toward something you say or believe - I'll do my best not to let that happen.

In my spare time I post to my blog and I go on trips to Disneyland. Actually, though southern California is one of my favourite places to visit, I love to travel a lot and have been slowly travelling the world one voyage at a time. Most recently I took part in a 7 week excursion to South-East Asia on a Cultural Studies trip arranged by the U of L.

I'm not married and never have been but I can say it hasn't been for a lack of trying. I guess it's better to break an engagement or two than go through a divorce. I'm sure I'll meet "her" soon enough.

I love to play sports, basketball and volleyball were my favourites growing up. I swam for the Pronghorns swim team for 3 years and now I get most of my exercise playing on an intramural water polo team. I also enjoy kayaking in the mountains when it is warm enough.

I heard a quote on TV the other day and it sparked a nice little discussion with one of my friends and his wife so now I'm posting it here as some food for thought:

"A friend may well be reckoned the masterpiece of nature."
-Ralph Waldo Emerson

Do you agree? If not then what do you reckon is the masterpiece of nature?

Another Blogger

Try as I might, I just can't seem to find people to join Our Thoughts from outside of Alberta.

Our newest team member is a regular commenter who hails from Medicine Hat but lives in Lethbridge. Jeff Milner develops websites and is famous on the Internet (soon to be even more famous thanks to an interview with a major newspaper) for his backmasking site.

I'll let Jeff post more detailed information about himself, but we're happy to have him aboard.

Mammon

During His sermon on the mount, Jesus said "no man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon" (Matt 6:24).

Mammon seems to be an Aramaic word for "riches". Despite that meaning—and perhaps focusing more on the rest of the verse—many members of the Church have interpreted this verse to mean that a person cannot be righteous and sinful at the same time. In other words, for example, a person cannot shop on Sunday (even if it is to purchase a loaf of bread for the sacrament ten minutes after the meting started because one of the teachers forgot or was home sick), without giving service to someone other than God; presumably Satan.

I have two questions.

1) Is this true? Is there no circumstance when one can be seemingly serving two masters?

2) Does keeping the commandments constitute service to God?

a joke:

You what the difference between home-teaching and pumpkin carving is?

...

You carve pumpkins on the second-to-last day of the month.

:)

Happy Halloween Everyone!

Love Jesus More

Jesus said that "if ye love me, keep my commandments" (John 14:15). Is it correct to interpret that if keeping commandments is a sign of our love for him, that is the only way to show love for him? If so, does that mean if we go beyond keeping the commandments then we love him more?

For example, one of the commandments is to not commit adultery. So, if I go even further and not even daydream about committing adultery, does that mean I love Jesus that much more?

Another commandment is to not take the lord's name in vain. If I go even further and not use any profanity, does that mean I love Jesus more?

Yet another commandment is to not drink coffee. If I go further and not eat mocha chocolate bars or drink caffeinated drinks, does that mean I love Jesus more?

Double Callings

We discussed this topic in ward council last week, come to think of it, it has been discussed many times, and we still are no nearer a final decision then we were a year ago. We were debating, for lack of a better term, whether or not the bishopric should issue 2nd and 3rd callings to "responsible" members to the work of the Lord gets completed or should they continue in seeing the work not done by members who choose to not do their callings for whatever reasons they have.

When we were living in good old Sask, at one point for nearly a year I was in the ward and stake primary presidency. Our stake at the time compassed the entire province and part of Manitoba. It meant a lot of travel. Hubby also had a ward and a stake calling at the same time as did a lot of members. With our membership numbers now so much greater then 20 years ago what is going on with the members that they either don't want callings, can't have callings, or choose to not to do their callings?

Another Primary President in another ward in our city called me last week desperately asking if their scouts could join up with our troop as they could not get 2 leaders called. Sad sad state of affairs.

Culture

Can someone explain to me how it is that the Church can create the Polynesian Culture Centre with which to preserve a culture, yet also institute the Indian Student Placement Program, which contributed to the erosion of another culture (or several cultures as it may be)?

Buying a House

We're buying a house! Ten years of marriage and we're finally buying a house.

It's a tiny little thing at 800 sq ft. The yard is about 3500 sq ft. The house has a living room, dining room, kitchen, bathroom and two bedrooms. It also has an unfinished basement, so the potential for other rooms also exists. The garage is too small for our Windstar, but that means I will finally have a workshop.

One of the exciting things is that there is a lot of potential for improvements to the property. As well, it looks like we will be saving roughly 200 dollars on housing and utility costs with this move. This move will also mean I won't have to transfer buses to get to work anymore.

We are very excited about this new stage in our life together.

Sell me on this LDS concept

Okay I've been told families can be forever. Repeatedly.

Now, I'm not sure if I'm the first and only man to disagree with his in-laws, but my idea of a perfect afterlife certainly does not include spending a considerable amount of time with my mother-in-law.

This sentiment also applies to my own parents.

I love them, and I can handle my parents in small doses - but an eternity of being with them sounds only less pleasant than repeatedly stabbing myself in the eye with a letter opener.

Now I'm not sure I can speak for my kids, my lord - I can barely speak to my kids, but I'm sure that they don't want me cramping their eternal styles any more than I want my parents around.

So all this leads to the crux of this posting.

Why, precisely, are forever-families a good thing?

Poll

A recent poll on Canada.com showed that more Canadians think moral values are a bigger concern than crime or poverty.



I wonder how many of those 26.67% equated "moral values" with same-sex marriage.

Follow the Profit

I was helping the primary chorister get ready for the musical interludes of singing time, some 3 years ago. Her husband, who was and still is, a non-member had helped her put together the activity for this particular Sunday. She had an envelope filled with little slips of paper, each bearing the name of a primary song the children were practising. One of the slips of paper read, in her husbands scrawly printing: Follow the profit.

It made me smile and a little sad, but also very curious regarding this interpretation of the word Prophet. I thought of how the world views and worships at the hip of monetary gain. How "following the profit" is a daily pursuit of tens of millions around the world. Yet change 2 or 3 letters in that phrase and it means something completely different. Suddenly there is more value, not in dollars, but in spirit and character and humility.

The word profit implies benefit...but not necessarly the benefit of financial gain. Here lies the similarity between the word profit and prophet. It is the advantage of all of us, whether we know it or are oblivious to the fact, that we have a living prophet. Even the fellas screaming on wall street this very minute reap some small benefit because we have a living Prophet. They have and all of us have the potential to profit through the modern day directions of a Prophet of God.

Who knew we could follow the profit by truly following the Prophet.

The Evolution of My Name

Most people take their current name for granted. These same people have probably never had their name changed. Many probably have assumed the same about my name: Kim Jason Joseph Benoit Siever. After all, if I, the holder of my name, can assume it, why shouldn't others?

In reality, it's not the case. While I may go by that name, legally it's not my name. In fact, the earliest documentation I have of this name being recorded was when I was ordained an elder a month before my mission.

I first realised something was odd when I received my birth certificate in 1987 and saw that not only was "Benoit" not on it, but the other two middle names were in the other's place.

Recently, I've been reviewing old documents and discovered that my name has gone through quite the roller coaster ride. Come share the ride.



That's the inside front page of my baby book and it reads "Kim, Joe, Jason, Ben". I am not sure of the date it was written, but it possible predates my baptism certificate (dated five days after my birth). If so, it is the earliest documentation I have for my name. The roller coaster starts there.



That's from my Catholic baptism certificate. The baptism took place five days after I was born. Here my name is "Kim Joseph Jason Ben Siever".



Here's my birth certificate. It's based on my baptismal certificate, and now every other legal identification is based off it. It reads "Kim Joseph Jason Siever". For whatever reason, "Ben" was not included. My birth was registered the day after the baptism.



When I was five, my parents joined the Mormon church. I was blessed in the church nine months later. This is my blessing certificate and here my name is "Kim Jason Joseph Ben Siever". This may be the first occurrence when "Jason" is put at the front, a precursor to my current name.



Within seven years, I took the last name of my step-father (who for all intents and purposes I consider my dad). I don't recall when I started going by "Haysom", but I believe I was around eight. Anyhow, that's my deacon ordination certificate. I'm not sure where the "Benjamin" came from, but it's the only occurrence I've seen of it.



Here's my priest ordination certificate, where I am listed as "Kim Jason Joseph Ben Siever". By the time I was sixteen, I needed to get a job. I couldn't get a social insurance number under Haysom, since it was never legally changed. I started going by Siever again.



This is my certificate for when I was ordained an elder. I received it in October 1992, a month before my misison. It was the earliest official occurrence I have found where my name is as I use it now.

There you go. The roller coaster that is now my name. Legally, my name is Kim Joseph Jason Siever. That's what's on my birth certificate, my SIN, my driver's license and so forth. Sometimes I bug Mary that we're not even legally married since the name on our marriage certificate is different from that on my birth certificate.

Flickr

Is it just me, or does anyone else find Flickr more mesmerising than reading a bunch of blogs? Or that uploading to Flickr and organising on Flickr is funner than posting on a blog?

Word Verification

In an effort to prevent comment spam on blogs, Blogger released a new feature called "word verification". The idea is some seemingly random letters are shown as an image and they can only be verified by a real person. In order for a comment to be valid, the user has to verify the letters in the picture. Theoretically, software that spam blogs is unable to verify these letters.

We do not use word verification on Our Thoughts. It is unfair that our visitors be forced through an extra step because of the efforts of spammers. It should be the spammers who are punished, not our legitimate visitors. That being said, I am willing to keep deleting each spam comment by hand rather than make it more difficult for visitors to comment.

On that note, if the spam becomes to intense, then we may switch to our own web space (perhaps on HotPepper.ca). That switch would be transparent to our visitors, and it will be easier for administering spam (especially spam that is automatically deleted). However, it is not as simple to post as it is with Blogger, so there would be a learning curve for our less technically-minded team members.

Rest assured that at this point, we are remaining on Blogger. I've pestered Blogger for a moderated comment feature, but we'll see if they will listen.

Returned Missionaries

The other day we ran into an old friend who was talking about her daughter. The daughter had stopped going to church at one point. The friend explained to us how she came around, started coming back to church and was married in the temple. At the apex of her excitement at her daughter's renewed faith, she mentioned that not only did she marry in the temple, but she married a returned missionary.

Have returned missionaries been reduced to nothing more than prizes for young women who stay faithful? Is marrying a returned missionary a sign of a woman's righteousness? Was I completely oblivious to all that?

I know teenage member girls always fawned over my companions and I, but I dealt with that before my mission from member and non-member girls alike. I assumed it was simply an extension of that.

All I know is the last thing I wanted to do was marry a returned missionary.

Superhero

Apparently, if I were a superhero, I would be Terse Subject Line Man. I'm just happy to have a superhero name.

Types

While reading my scriptures last night, I came across something interesting that Jacob said (imagine that; Jacob saying something interesting):

Behold, my soul delighteth in proving unto my people the truth of the coming of Christ; for, for this end hath the law of Moses been given; and all things which have been given of God from the beginning of the world, unto man, are the typifying of him. (2 Ne. 11:4)

Here, he's saying that everything we have ever received from God is a type of Christ. I can see how things like the sun or the priesthood or mountains are types of Christ, but trees and animals and mosquitoes? I wish Jacob had been a little more detailed in this declaration.

Reconcile

There is a belief among some Mormons that we are responsible for our salvation. That is we do the best that we can, then Jesus picks up the slack. To support this idea, it is common to use the following scriptures (among others):

And now, my beloved brethren, I desire that ye should remember these things, and that ye should work out your salvation with fear before God, and that ye should no more deny the coming of Christ... (Alma 34:37)

For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. (2 Ne 25:23)

While reading in the Book of Mormon (which incidentally I started in the spring) last night, I came across another verse that made me ponder this idea.

Wherefore, my beloved brethren, reconcile yourselves to the will of God, and not to the will of the devil and the flesh; and remember, after ye are reconciled unto God, that it is only in and through the grace of God that ye are saved. (2 Ne 10:24)

The key here (and to which Nephi briefly pointed in the twenty-fifth chapter) is that we need to be reconciled to God. I have to admit that I am not an expert on the usage of the term 'reconcile' in the early nineteenth century, but today it has the meaning of "reestablishing a close relationship between", "settling", "resolving", "bringing oneself to accept" and "making compatible or consistent".

If the usage of the term is similar today as to what it was around 1830, perhaps the meaning of the first two verses I mentioned is not what many make them out to be. Perhaps "working out our salvation" has more to do with our heart than our actions. Perhaps "all we can do" isn't actually a reference to physical doings after all.

Good Baby

I've had enough people ask me if Aisling is a good baby, that I thought I'd post my answer once and for all in hopes of nipping the repetition of the question in the bud.

She's not lying, stealing or killing, so, yeah, I guess she is a good baby.

I also added it to her FAQ page.

Capitalism

In chapter 19 of Teachings of Presidents of the Church: David O. McKay, President McKay said, in part, the following:

The law of pure nature, survival of the fittest, is self-preservation at the sacrifice of all else; but in contrast to this the law of true spiritual life is, deny self for the good of others.

If they are in such contrast, why would the gospel be restored in a capitalist society, the epitome of "pure nature"?

He also said

The greatest spiritual blessing comes from helping another.

What is "the greatest spiritual blessing"?

Dove and Real Women

This past year or so Dove has been promoting their "get real for women" campaign where they are trying to get across to women and more importantly to young girls that the real woman image is not one of a skinny minny walking down a runway but a healthy female with a healthy self esteem. Their commercials are showing women of all ages, all sizes and all races.

Today I was watching a tv news program where men were up in arms trying to get other men to sign petitions to have these ads removed off the media because this is not what real women look like. Unbeknownst to some of these men the camera men showed their wives, their mothers, their sisters and daughters and how funny it was to see their faces when the news show showed them that the female members of their families were indeed "real" and not anything like the women they felt they wanted to see portrayed. There was some crow pie being swallowed at that point.

I had to wonder how many men met their womenfolk that night with a chagrined and apologetic look on their faces. I had to also wonder how many of these women met their men with the proverbial rolling pin in their hands.

The other day I asked my husband why it was when we first met and I was toothpick thin he said he loved me that way then years later when I had gained a substantial amount of weight he still said he loved me that way...now I am in between and he still says the same thing.. I asked which time was it that he had lied to me.. at the beginning, in the middle or at the end (now) and he said don't you get it yet? It's you I love not the size you are.

Guess he won't be facing a rolling pin anytime soon. Do any of you think Dove is being untrue to their portrayal of what a real woman looks like?

Aisling

Aisling Elisabeth Winter Siever was born today at 17:23. Labour went well (about 6.5 hours) and Mama and baby are nursing contently.





More pictures

She was born 17:23, 29 September 2005. She weighed 2834 grams (2.83 kg), roughly 6lb 4oz. She measured at 44.5cm in length, roughly 17.5 inches. Her head's circumference was an average 13.5 inches.

More details are on the family website.

Crime

Someone I knew quite well and to whom I felt close has been charged with a serious crime. It came as a big shock and when I heard of it I felt very ill the entire day. This man is a good husband and father. He treats others right. I had always the highest respect for this person.

The experience has caused me to ponder the person behind the criminal. How many of those in the penitential system are good husbands and fathers? How many of them were otherwise charitable and loving and kind? How many others garnered respect of all who knew them?

It is easy for us, as strangers, to look at a reported crime in the paper and agree with the sentence issued knowing that justice was served. It is harder when it is someone you know and a judgement passed on a punishment makes the pangs of the heart even stronger.

Ward Council meetings

Any ideas on how to get ward council meetings to stop going round and round on the same dead topic that keeps getting brought up? Or to stop hearing "we have to do something" in regards to a specific family instead of someone saying I will do this or ok you do this by the next meeting and report back the results etc. What a waste of my time. Our YWP nearly took the ward mission leader's head off as 2 of her new converts (1 baptized a year ago and the other one about 6 months ago) still have not had new member discussions yet and he kept going on about well I have to ask so and so if they can do it and then maybe they should have females doing it and I have to ask around and she just flipped and said you have been saying that for the 3 meetings I have been at when are you actually going to just do it?

Does anyone have different ward councils that are actually productive?

Trouble

Before Our Thoughts

Famous

I've hit the big time.

You know you're popular when your name is generated as random text in a spam blog.

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Woodswesternwear

I feel like a movie star.

Inappropriate dress for teachers

So what would you do in the situation that you had called a young female to work in your auxiliary and she shows up for Sunday meetings and weekday meetings in inappropriate clothing such as a see through black top that you can honestly see your belly button through her shirt and jeans that low. Or wearing a tank top to teach her class.

This female is only a member for 1 year. She is 18 and her parents are not members although her 16 year old sister was recently baptized earlier this year. She wears skirts etc to church. Do you speak to her and hope you don't offend her and hope that she doesn't get humiliated or think the ward is talking about her behind her back? Do you have the RS President put a bug in her ear from her visiting teachers of course that is providing she even has visiting teachers. Do you just leave her alone and hopefully she will notice she is the only one wearing pants to church in the auxiliary and skinny tops so starts changing her wardrobe?

What if to her, this is her best clothing to wear? After all we technically do not have a dress code per se at church just dress your best (although I still have an issuse with only wearing white shirts for men but we won't touch THAT line again).

What to do what to do.

Glory

I have heard the Mormon view of heaven described as degrees, glories, kingdoms and worlds. D&C 76 describes terrestrial and telestial worlds. D&C 131:1 talks about degrees, but only in the celestial sphere. And so on.

So I am left to wonder whether the celestial, terrestrial and telestial spheres are actual worlds (or inhabitable planets). They could be, on the other hand, different levels (degrees) of existence on the same planet. I am not sure either one makes more sense.

Separate planets would make sense if we were able to interpret the spheres as being actual separation from each other. On the other hand, I can't wrap my hand around all these spirits floating through space as they go to their new homes.

A less literal separation would also make sense—especially if the new "heaven" was established here on our earth—since it would be easier for us to get there. On the other hand, that could imply the possibility of progressing between the different degrees.

So even though we tend to use the above terms interchangeably, is there one term that is more literal than the others? Is 'world' more accurate than 'glory'? Is 'kingdom' more accurate than 'world'?

Social

So, we're planning next month's elders quorum social and we have two ideas. So I am posting two polls to see what the public thinks.

First, the two ideas are either home made ice cream or chips and dips. For the ice cream, those who attend the social would all help make the ice cream and then we would all eat it. With the chips and dips, everyone brings their favourite dip (salsa, hummus, ranch dressing, whatever) and the presidency provides stuff to dip (tortilla chips, ribbed chips, pita, veggies, etc).



Second, now that the most important part is out of the way, would you rather have a get-to-know-you activity, or just chat while you eat?



The success of our second social depends on your votes.

Predication

I came across something that the Prophet Joseph Smith said in while reading D&C 130:20-21 during my personal scripture study this morning.

There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—and when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.

I understand the premise behind it: the Lord blesses us when we are obedient. It makes sense. We mortals seem to be motivated by reward and recognition and this setup acknowledges that.

I wonder though if Joseph Smith is speaking literally in this regard. When he says "any blessing", does he truly mean any blessing> Does he truly mean that we receive blessings only because we are obedient to laws to which those blessings are attached? Does he truly mean that God never blesses us simply because He loves us and wants to express that love in beneficence?

Minimalistic

I made a comment over at another blog regarding President Hinckley's challenge. Someone got ruffled by it and stated the following. Since there have been 45 comments since mine and it's been nearly a day, I thought I'd post my response here instead of threadjacking.

...your determination to popularize the view that President Hinckley has not asked us to read the Book of Mormon by the end of the year rests on an extremely minimalistic and legalistic reading of his words.

After two and a half years, it seems my real-life reputation for semantics has finally caught up to my Bloggernacle reputation. It sure is nice to be recognised, even if it is with such an obvious statement. I think my new motto should be: superfluousness is for the birds.

Oh, and for the record, I am not sure I'd go so far as to say that commenting a month apart on two different blogs on this topic qualifies as determination. Okay. I concede. It may have been three blogs. I haven't been keeping track. It wouldn't be the first topic I've commented two or three times about. Perhaps this one must be unique.

Prayer

I must say way too many prayers.

I just finished saying a payer over my dinner, and then my office phone rang. I picked it up and said, "Dear Eternal Fath...[pause]".

Fired

Let's say you run a company. Sales are down and profits are going down with them. It's come to the point where you have to let go of an employee. You've narrowed it down to two. The first has been with the company longer than anyone else and has a larger salary. The second has been with the company for only a year and has a smaller salary. Everything else is equal.

Who would you fire?

Guess

Our little family has a contest going to see who gets the closest to when the baby's born. I put together a DHTML script that updates automatically showing how many days left till everyone's guess date.

Probably a little to the left on the cool scale, but on the scale nonetheless.

Oh, and shortly after the baby is born, the contest is gone. FYI.

Hypocrisy

There is a person in my ward who doesn't like i when I grow a beard. Last winter, when all my rehearsals were done for Papers, this person gave me a ride home from a meeting. On the way home, he asked me if I was going to shave my beard now that the performance was done. There were other such comments.

One of my counsellors works for him, and he asked my counsellor to stay late Thursday night, the night we have our presidency meetings. Even after my counsellor explained about our presidency meeting, he still insisted he needed him to stay late.

Does it seem odd to anyone else that he would make a big deal about facial hair, but then have no problems expecting someone to miss a presidency meeting?

Social Responsibility

Is it more important for universities (as educational institutions that create critical-thinking individuals) to put social responsibility over cost for students?

For example, let's say a university is holding a social for every student and staff member. This social involves food and inevitably also requires plates for each person to hold that food. Given that the plates are going to run into the thousands (what with people coming up for seconds and thirds and separate desert plates), the cost of such plates are going to be in the hundreds (if not thousands) of dollars. Compound this by the number of such events the university holds throughout the year.

Students protest increases to the cost of attending the university (materials, fees, tuition, etc), and a large part of that cost covers operational expenses (including plates for events). It would be within the university's best fiscal interest to get the cheapest plates possible.

At the same time, universities have a (if only expected) social responsibility. They teach equality, tolerance, respect and so forth for humans, animals and the environment. In this instance, it would be socially responsible for the university to use plates that are made from recycled materials. Better yet, they could use porcelain plates that can be washed and reused. Of course, both of these options incur a larger cost (more expensive to purchase, and in the latter case, staffing costs to wash them).

So which is more important? Cheaper or more socially responsible?

Pre-existence

So, if we existed as spirits before this life, why do some people refer to the pre-mortal world as the pre-existence?

Continue to Minister

While reading my scriptures this morning on the bus ride to work, I came across a scripture that made an impression on my mind and heart.

When it comes to home teaching, the scriptural support we hear frequently for this practise are such things as the elders are "to teach, expound, exhort, baptize, and watch over the church" (D&C 20:42).

A scripture I read this morning gave me added hope that my seemingly fruitless efforts are purposeful. The words I read are direct from the resurrected Saviour and found in 3 Nephi 18:31–32:

[If] he repent not he shall not be numbered among my people, that he may not destroy my people, for behold I know my sheep, and they are numbered. Nevertheless, ye shall not cast him out of your synagogues, or your places of worship, for unto such shall ye continue to minister; for ye know not but what they will return and repent, and come unto me with full purpose of heart, and I shall heal them; and ye shall be the means of bringing salvation unto them.

The Saviour's words express the love He has for all humankind, even the unrepentant sinners. His words express His apprehension with the chance the sinner could spiritually harm His people, yet at the same time He recognises the worth there is in people attending church and receiving spiritual nourishment. He illustrates to us that we should make the sinner feel welcome at church, going so far as to proactively helping them. He extends this to a statement of hope by telling us that we cannot tell will return to his fold, but when they do, they could very well be ready to roll up their sleeves, lace up their boots and go to work building the kingdom of God.

He's preaching to the converted on this point. I grew to understand the importance of home teaching years ago when I was first called into an elders quorum presidency shortly after my mission. The saviour's words simply reiterated what I already know and that to which I am already committed.

There are some people I have been home teaching for over three years (the length I've been in this ward) and they have never come to church. They turn down all my requests to come out to ward socials and to come out to church. Yet I go there every month as a representative of the ward leadership and, hopefully, a disciple of the Christ. I pray daily that these spiritual siblings of mine might have their hearts pricked and return to church where we can sit side by side as brothers and sisters armed in the battle against evil.

I hope I can be there the day my prayers are answered.

Deserving

There's been a lot of talk of Katrina in the Bloggernacle this week, even here (also here and here). There's been enough commonality among the posts that I've often seen the same question asked: should we donate to a Katrina-specific cause or keep paying fast offerings?

The same thought keeps popping in my head each time the question comes up, so I thought I better post the though here before I forget.

My initial response is, "why should it matter". The Church will use fast offering monies to fund any relief efforts they initiate, so in directly or indirectly, they'll use your money. But more importantly, should we be removing our beneficence from one person and giving it to another? Is one family devastated by Katrina's wrath worse off (or more deserving) than some other family who would receive assistance of some sort from fast offering funds? Is it right of us to rank those in need? Is it more important to help one family in Louisiana who needs 10,000$ than 100 families who need 100$?

I'm not sure I'm ready to do that.

Gospel

Several years ago, I received an email from someone spouting off something or rather, trying to be negative about the Church. I can't remember what it was exactly he said, but it was along the lines of the-church-is-a-cult-and-joe-smith-is-a-paedophile type of email. Anyhow, we wrote back and forth a few times, and at one point, he brought up how we use the term 'gospel' incorrectly. He used 1 Cor. 15:1–l4 to point out that the term 'gospel' referred to Jesus' dying, being buried and being resurrected.

It must have stuck with me because last night during companionship scripture study, I came across another scripture that seems to indicate the definition of 'gospel' is a bit more expansive.

And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom. (D&C 39:6)

So if the definition of 'gospel' extends to more than just the death, burial and resurrection of the Christ, perhaps that explains why we as members have gone so far to expand its definition to be synonymous with 'the Church'.

Shirt

My birthday present was ringer T-shirt from my HotPepper.ca store.



I think my children (6 and 4) were more excited about me opening it than I was. Now they think (since we bought a shirt for the baby a few weeks ago) that they should get some and that Mary should as well. A hot pepper family. Cute.

In a birthday present to everyone else, I've removed all markup from the ringer T-shirt. If you want one, you can get it at cost for the next week or two (until I feel like cancelling the offer). It comes with an orange collar and sleeve cuffs, or you can get blue or black as well.

Oh, and feel free to buy one of the more than 30 other items available. Just so I get a buck or two.

And maybe, just maybe, if I ever get enough, I'll actually spring and buy a domain for Our Thoughts. If I can ever get the Scottish side of me asleep long enough.

For such a time as this...

So, I've started reading the Book of Mormon [again]. True to form, I'm late to the party and behind the congregation (or am I?) To switch it up a bit, I started in 3rd Nephi.

I am impressed by the timely call of our prophet. Even before the tragedies left in Katrina's wake, we were given a call to search our scriptures. Amid the daily sadness in the world, we have the oppurtunity to find insight and personal revelation in another testament of Christ.

How cool is that?

America's Dilemma

Okay, I've been reading on a number of bulletin boards and blogs from Americans complaining about how they send relief to help other countries, but no countries are returning the favour with the hurricane situation, or are not reacting fast enough.

I can't help but wonder, how much better would the situation be if you had, say, another million troops in country - rather than running around in a desert somewhere?

How about, wouldn't there be more money for relief if you weren't spending a billion dollars every year on the occupation of another sovereign state?

Look, I never asked the US to act like super-heroes of the world - and I certainly appreciate that their hearts may be in the right place. The problem is that all of that self-righteousness that the US has put on international display recently is coming home to roost. You actually expect help from France or Germany? Are you kidding me? The kicker is that many of these countries are in fact preparing relief efforts (Canada is preparing huge amounts of help).

Like all things American, this is fast becoming a 'we could do this so much better than you' situation. The only problem this time is that the US can't very well step in and show us all how it should be done this time. Oh my lord, give me a break.

I love our neighbours to the south. We are intricately linked in so many ways. I'm embarrassed for these people shooting off their mouths, and I think they're trying to pick a fight when there's work to be done.

Nicene Creed Challenge

Ronan brings up over at BCC regarding President Hinckley's 'challenge' this past General Conference for us to read the Nicene Creed. I was going to post my thoughts there, but the conversation has long since gone the way of talking about the mechanics of the creed, and I wanted to bring up a different point unrelated to the text itself.

I invite you to read that definition and compare it with the statement of the boy Joseph.

How many members of the Church took up President Hinckley's invitation? How many ward and stakes initiated programmes to help their members meet this goal? How many members of the Bloggernacle blogged about it (beside Ronan of course)?

Which is kind of odd when you think of it. The Nicene Creed has three paragraphs; the Book of Mormon has several thousand. Or maybe it's not that odd after all. Maybe were more like Naaman than we care to admit.

Calamaties and Wickedness

Hurricane Katrina reminds me of a post I wrote last year partly regarding Hurricane Jeanne.

In one person’s “testimony”, he made mention that God’ hand is evident in the recent barrage of hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico. He made particular reference to Hurricane Jeanne and God’s hand guiding it wherever it goes.

My response was as follows:

Naturally, I have a problem with this thought. I have a problem believing that God directed a hurricane to the poorest countries in the western hemisphere in order that one and a half thousand people would be killed. What horrendous sins could these 1,500 men, women and children committed that would warrant God sending a relentless hurricane to a country already reeling from thousands killed this spring in massive floods and February in civil war.

I've been thinking about this concept; the idea that God punishes the wicked with natural disasters. It seems that many ancient prophets foretold of a future time where people would be more wicked and there would be more calamities.

I have a thought though. What if all these calamities are not a direct result of our wickedness?

Presumably, God can see all things past, present and future. One can assume then thousands of years ago, he knew that a day would come where the earth would be plagued by earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, and the like. He also knew that the inhabitants of the earth would be more base and more willing to turn their backs on Him.

Perhaps, however, He told the prophets of these calamities not because he Was going to use them to punish us, but to use them as a sign. Perhaps all these calamities are not divinely created or guided. Perhaps they are all natural. Perhaps he saw them happening and told the prophets about them so that we, in the future, could use them as an indication that we need to be more righteous.

Male Primary Teachers

I belong to a Primary message board site and last couple of days there has been this huge hoopla about male teachers in Primary. Somehow some presidents are saying that in the "guidelines" it states that if a male is called to teach Primary then it has to be as a couple (husband/wife team) or 2 males, doors are to remain always open and that any member of the presidency can walk in unannounced at any given moment. When I posted the question of where this so called guidleline is no one seems to know. I also pointed out that males were being dumped on (on this site regarding this particular post) and that men aren't the only ones that are abusers of children.

I also pointed out that if the church (according to the Utah wards that were posting) had set these guidelines to protect the children then how is it that men can teach in Young Men or in Scouts where the chances are greater for risk factor as they meet a lot away from the actual building (camps etc).

Has anyone actually seen this guideline set out by the church?

Adam as Our Father

It is well known among Mormons that critics of the church accuse Brigham Young of teaching a doctrine that stated Adam, the first man, was the god of our spirits. Often we hear that Brigham Young was misquoted or the quotes were taken in context.

I came across a number of quotes today by Brigham Young regarding this doctrine. If it was a single quote, I can see how members of the Church could use the defence that is was misquoted or out of context. Given the number of references to the principle, it would seem that this was something Brigham Young believed and taught. Not only that, but he claimed it to be true doctrine.

How much unbelief exists in the minds of Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me - namely that Adam is our father and God ..Then he said, 'I want my children who are in the spirit world to come and live here. I once dwelt upon an earth something like this, in a mortal state. I was faithful. I received my crown and exaltation...I want my children that were born to me in the spirit world to come here and take tabernacles of flesh that their spirits may have a house, a tabernacle...' (Brigham Young, Deseret Weekly News, June 18, 1873, page 308)

Who was the Savior begotten by?....Who did beget him? His Father, and his father is our God, and the Father of our spirits, and he is the framer of the body, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who is he? He is Father Adam; Michael; the Ancient of Days. (President Brigham Young, Feb. 19, 1854, Brigham Young Addresses, 1850-1854, Vol. 2, by Elden J. Watson, sheet 179 (in chronological order), Historical Dept. Church, Ms d 1234, Box 48 Fd. 11)

Some have grumbled because I believe our God to be so near to us as Father Adam. There are many who know that doctrine to be true. (Brigham Young, October 7, 1857, Journal of Discourses 5:331).

Some years ago I advanced a doctrine with regard to Adam being our Father and God...It is one of the most glorious revealments of the economy of heaven... (President Brigham Young, in the Tabernacle, General Conference, October 8, 1861, 10:30 a.m.; Brigham Young Addresses, 1860-1864, Vol. 4, by Elden J. Watson, sheet 134 (in chronological order), Historical Dept. Church, Ms d 1234, Box 49 fd 8)

I tell you more: Adam is the father of our spirits. He lived upon an earth, he did abide his creation and did honor to his calling and priesthood and obeyed his master or lord, and probably many of his wives did the same, and they lived and died upon an earth and then were resurrected again to immortality and eternal life. (Brigham Young, October 8, 1854, Brigham Young Addresses, 18509-1854, Vol. 2, by Elden J. Watson, sheet 221 (in chronological order), Historical Dept. Church, Box 49 fd 12)

These aren't all statements made in an interview with Mike Wallace or Larry King; some are statements made by the president of the Church during General Conference.

So, why was it dropped? President Kimball declared it a false doctrine in the October 1976 General Conference.

We warn you against the dissemination of doctrine which are not according to the scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations. Such, for instance is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine.

If President Hinckley came to General Conference and announced a doctrine that was not in the scriptures, would we be able to use President Kimball's admonition to denounce it as false doctrine? This isn't like revealing a new practise (such as plural marriage) or stopping an old practise (such as withholding priesthood from Blacks); this is revealing a new doctrine.

Book of Mormon Challenge Redux

President Hinckley issued a challenge to the world in the August issue of the Ensign and through a letter to all wards and stakes. His challenge was for everyone to read or reread the Book of Mormon.

I offer a challenge to members of the Church throughout the world and to our friends everywhere to read or reread the Book of Mormon.

Nowhere in this sentence does he give timeframe or suggest that the challenge consist of reading a specific amount each day. Later on in his message, does point out the following:

If you will read a bit more than one and one-half chapters a day, you will be able to finish the book before the end of this year.

It is not clear, however, that this information is strictly part of the challenge or simply FYI.

So, strictly speaking, I guess I am meeting President Hinckley's challenge after all. Nevertheless, I didn't stop reading the Book of Mormon and start over; I simply kept going where I was already.

Propets old and new alike

The scriptures give us many examples of prophets in the Old and New Testaments. Then the keys were removed off the earth not to return until the "present" time of Joseph Smith. As I have been studing the Book of Mormon as well as the Doctrice and Covenants this past while, the same thought keeps cropping up. Why is it that the keys were not returned until Joseph Smith? Was it planned this way in the pre-existance? I mean the righteousness of the people was not any less great in say the 1700's as it was when Joseph was 14. There have been many great men that have walked the earth in between the last prophet and Joseph. Why not any of them? And why a boy of 14? I mean I have 4 sons and if I were to think back at their life at 14, well let's just say, getting them up in the morning to get to Seminary was enough of a struggle in their life. I remember when President Kimball died and President Benson was called. It floored me as a very young adult, that they would pick just as aged a man as the previous Prophet. I remember asking why on earth the church did not pick a young man who would live for a few more years and the reply always came back "cause by their age, tempation has long left them and they have proven themselves to the Lord." Well Joseph hadn't proven anything at 14.

Are the answers in the scriptures and when I get to that part of my reading, my head is nodding too much to have absorbed it? Christ knew from a very very young age what his mission in life was to be. He knew of his life with his Father. Did Joseph as well? He saw many many visions in his short life but did he ever see his life in the pre-existance? Was there a time when he stepped forward, as Christ did, and said pick me Father? Or would our Father just have chosen him instead of asking for volunteers?